[beowulf]

I just want everyone to get off the Scorpions subject for just a few minutes. There has been some sad news concerning Las Vegas Illusionists Siegfried and Roy. I don't know if everyone has heard, but Roy was severely injured by one of his tigers during a show Friday night. The tiger bit him on his throat and last report was that he is in critical, but stable condition after having emergency surgery. Siegfried has told everyone that Roy is heavily medicated, but responding to touch and voices and the doctors don't know how long it will take for him to recover, but he will survive.
I don't know if anyone here is a fan of theirs or not, but I hope that everyone here will join me in sending a few thoughts and prayers their way in the hope that Roy will make a quick and speedy recovery.
Candy

[desertScorpion]

Yes beowulf I heard about the news .In fox news ,I never got to see their show
when I was Las Vegas ,1992.
I heard that if one performer is unable to do the show the other one stops the show for respect to the other ,and the hotel told all the employes to start finding new jobs,.!! O no I wander why the tiger turned on him ,MYSTERIOUS!

[rudiray]

My heart goes out to Roy and his family...Siegfried most just be in shock over this.........I watch the news every night for an update.......these guys are CLASS acts and very generous human beings..
Hope all goes well....

[beowulf]

I belong to a yahoogroup called Siegfried and Roy Getaway and there have been minute by minute updates by all their fans.
Tonight there is a candlelight vigil for the illusionists outside of the University Medical Center.
One of the fans told what had happened and basically the tiger grabbed Roy by the arm and he hit the tiger with a microphone causing the tiger to let go. Before Roy could grab the leash, the tiger tried to lunge out at the audience and Roy grabbed the tiger and tried to restrain him on stage. The tiger then grabbed Roy by the throat and dragged him backstage where a handler got the tiger to let him go. There was no use of a fire extinguisher on the tiger.
The tiger had been used on stage for years and no one knows why this tragedy occurred.
I have already emailed to their private email address well wishes to them and everyone does hope that he gets well and in time hopefully their show will continue. It will be just a wait and see at this point.
I know that Siegfried has said that he will remain at his partner's bedside throughout this ordeal.
If anyone wants to light a candle during this vigil, then please do so because their fans are starting a light a candle campaign vigil until Roy is out of danger and out of the hospital.
Candy

[JabsScorpAngel]

I hope he recovers and soon. His injuries were pretty bad from what I hear. Both of them have done so much for the preservation of the white tiger species. It is really tragic.

[beowulf]

I just got this from their fan base. According to the news, Roy gave a thumbs up after his second surgery to relieve pressure from his brain.
Doctors say that it's a sign of a good recovery and he is doing well.
I hope that he continues to do well and recovers soon.
Candy

[Sheryl]

My prayers are with him for a quick and complete recovery

[rudiray]

Thank you beowulf for the updates....I really enjoy all the work those guys have done with the big cats.........my heart goes out to both of them and their families......God Bless............

[gohesse]

pray...that's all we can do for now, and leave the rest to God..

I can't stop wondering what made the tiger to go for the throat (neck?)...it sounds more like "meant to kill" animal instinct..

when animals just attack (but not meant to kill) they don't bite neck....do they....?

I know a dog who bit his owner to death---they loved each other but sadly, the dog had brain tumor and didn't know what he was doing...
you can never be sure...

[beowulf]

Ok. Here's another update from their fanbase. Roy moved his right arm and leg yesterday and his left foot and hand. Doctors are still hopeful in a full and complete recovery.
However, they do fear a slight paralysis on his left side and they are not commenting on whether Roy will be able to talk or not.
Their manager, Bernie Yuman told in an interview that Roy will not be the same person due to this tragedy.
Siegfried is still at Roy's bedside and has barely spoken a word about Roy's condition to anyone, but I heard that on Wednesday he will be on Larry King Live on CNN to talk since Friday night. So, I am assuming that he will tell everyone what will become of the show and how Roy is doing and what will become of Manticore their tiger.
Right now, the tiger is in quarantine to see if it has rabies after that the tiger will be released back to Siegfried and Roy. Roy was noted in saying that he didn't want the tiger killed and someone from the show even said that Roy wanted to go back on stage after the incident.
This just shows that Roy is a fighter and that he will pull through.
Also, Roy has been communicating with people by blinking his eyes, squeezing his hand, and by making noises.
Everyone from their fanbase has been sending cards and flowers to Siegfried and Roy.
If anyone wants to send a card or a well wish to the illusionists, I will post the addresses in another post along with the phone number to the Larry King Live show.
Also, for any fans here who live in Las Vegas, at the statue of Siegfried and Roy at the Mirage, there are easels placed with large pads on them. People have been writing personal notes on them to the illusionists. If anyone who lives in the area wants to write them a personal note, then please do so.
Keep sending them your thoughts and prayers until Roy is out of the hospital.
Candy

[beowulf]

Here are the addresses to send them cards, letters, and flowers.
Mirage Hotel
3400 Las Vegas Blvd S.
Las Vegas, NV 89102
Attn:ticket Sales or Roy Horn

Roy Horn and Siegfried Fischbacher
c/o University Medical Center
1800 W. Charleston Blvd.
Las Vegas, NV 89102

Also here is the phone number for the Larry King show, if anyone wants to phone in any words of encouragement.
Larry King Hotline 1-800-676-2100

If anyone wants to know where the most updates are, then you can check out the updates on the Today show on NBC, http://www.lvrj.com (Las Vegas Review Journal), or at the yahoogroup Siegfried and Roy Getaway.
Also, on NBC Entertainment Tonight will be doing a show on this tragedy. The airtime is tonight at 7:30 Eastern Standard Time on NBC.
I will continue to post updates here as I receive them myself.
Keep praying everyone.
Candy
PS:No one knows why the tiger attacked Roy, but the show was taped as they always do and they will be watching the tape as soon as Roy comes out of the hospital. So details are still sketchy about what had happened.

[Silver]

" Originally posted by gohesse

I can't stop wondering what made the tiger to go for the throat (neck?)...it sounds more like "meant to kill" animal instinct..
when animals just attack (but not meant to kill) they don't bite neck....do they....?


If some guy was banging his microphone on my nose to get my attention I would have gone for his throat too.
I'm cheering for the tiger.
These two magicians boast 5700 performances with Tigers that never asked if they wanted to be there, performing on demand. This tigerMontecore" is a hero among all animals taken from their natural habitat to be gawked at and provoked for human entertainment.
Look, people, no matter how one thinks these animals are treated, it isn't their choice and it's long past time to stop these barbaric forms of entertainment. Circuses are no better.
Those so called animal lovers who use animals for their own purposes are no better than poachers and maybe the ones who pay to watch this stuff should think twice.
If this had happened where I live, the Tiger would have been destroyed, but at least in Vegas, they are too greedy to destroy something that may still prove to be profitable.

[Sheryl]

Silver, please enlighten me--what does being gay have to do with being attacked by a tiger? Feeling a tad homophobic today?

[beowulf]

Silver, I want to respond to your statement.
First off, the illusionists are not gay. They have had relationships with women before. They are single and are not married because of their animals. I am not married and single myself. So, does that make me gay. No, it doesn't. So, it doesn't make them gay either.
Second, Roy did nothing wrong. The tiger grabbed Roy by the arm and wouldn't let go. Roy responded correctly and he didn't beat the tiger on the nose with the microphone. He tapped the tiger on the nose twice. It is the same thing that a mother tiger would do to a cub in the wild.
Third the tiger was about to lunge at the audience after releasing Roy's arm. Roy put himself in between the audience and the tiger and that was when the tiger grabbed Roy by the neck. He risked his own life to save an audience member.
Fourth, their animals are treated far better than I have seen other magicians treat their animals. Siegfried and Roy's cats are allowed the run of both of their houses. At night the cats are not put into cages, but allowed to roam free within their houses, rooms, and yards. In fact, they even sleep with the illusionists, swim with them, and play with them. Roy has even been known to take a cat to a fast food drive-thru to get burgers.
The cats are well cared for and loved.
Many people don't know this, but it is known that if Siegfried and Roy were to die the animals will get all of their assets (money, properties, the works).
Fifth, Manticore (correct spelling of the name by the way) will not be destroyed and will continue to live. Roy was even commented on saying several times as he was being wheeled into the hospitalDon't kill the cat. He's a good cat."
Sixth, Siegfried and Roy use animals in their stage shows. This is true, but they use no stun guns, whips, chains, or tranquilizers on the animals. They treat the animals as if they were their own children. They love their animals and treat them with the respect that they deserve. They don't provoke them in anyway shape or form and if they caught a handler provoking any of their animals, that person would no longer have a job with them.
Seventh, least we forget that if it wasn't for these two men, there wouldn't be any white tigers or white lions left in the world. Their breeding programs throughout the world provides hope that these large cats will continue to live and thrive well into the future. All of this is due to a dream that Roy had a long time ago about a great white tiger. These men have brought a near extinct species back from the brink of extinction better than any zoo could dare to dream of. That is why the Johannsburg Zoological Society asked them to help with the White Lions of Timbaviti. There was only 5 white lions in the world and now, because of Siegfried and Roy there are 16 and their numbers are once again growing.
Eighth, around the Jungle Palace, it is made up like the snow covered mountains of the tigers natural habitat. If they only cared about money and were greedy, then would they have spent so much money to do this. No, they wouldn't have, but they did. They have spent millions of dollars of their own money to ensure that their animals are highly comfortable in their own surroundings. They make sure that the animals are even comfortable on stage as well.
So, bottom line, Siegfried and Roy are not barbaric monsters as some people claim them to be, but highly caring, nice, sweet, down to earth individuals who have sacrificed their time, millions of their dollars, and a chance at having a family and raising children all for their animals. They are in the truest sense of the word conservationists and philanthropists giving of themselves to everyone around the world.
This is just my own thoughts and I hope it straightens some people out about these two illusionists.
Candy
PS:On http://www.etonline.com, they have it set up where you can send a personal message to Siegfried and Roy.
Also, Siegfried told a German newspaper that Roy gave a "V" sign for victory with his hand. So, he is improving everyday and doctors are calling it a miracle.

[rudiray]

You tell`em beowulf......these guys have done so much to preserve tigers.....I can`t believe the homophic comment.......Silver you ought to know better.....ingorance is not against the law........thats obvious...

Thanks again beowulf for the updates and where to get more.........

[beowulf]

I have another update for everyone. The University Medical Center has set up a special hotline where you can get updates on Roy's condition. The number is 1-702-671-6551.
Also, there is another message board set up where you can send well wishes to the illusionists at http://www.castncrew.com/pages/index.html.
These are the only updates that I have so far.
Thanks Rudiray for your support as well as others too. This is just a subject that is near and dear to my heart because I have had the honor of becoming friends with the two illusionists myself. This was all due to a twist of fate. So I will defend them all the way and I stand behind them 100%.
Candy

[Silver]

Ok, I retract that comment in my post.
I do know better.
My point was about him provoking the tiger to attack, not their sexual preference.
They are gay though.
Not that there is anything wrong with that but those two are synonymous with..... oh what the hell, they are so gay.
I recall a back issue of vanity Fair that interviewed them.
Their house was adorned with these huge murals of fantasy characters which were predominately men. Not Sistine Chapel kind of men but guys wearing nothing but Peter Pan boots flying through the air clinging to other men.
These two have been an item for over 40 years. They signed a lifetime contract with the Mirage Hotel, so I'd say to avoid litigation, they really have no choice but to perform and raise these tigers. It's their bread and butter.
You will never convince me that these tigers are better off with these two than in their own environment.
And Candy, Rock Hudson's fan club were reluctant to admit the truth about him too, so I understand your discretion, but don't be so naive.
I'm still cheering for the tiger.

[Sheryl]

Beowulf, thanks so much for all the info you have given on Roy's condition

[tscorps]

This topic is not so much off the Scorpions topics afterall. The band is actually friends with Siegfried and Roy. Particularly, with Sigfried and Roy's official artist. When the Scorps started their tour in Vegas with Dio and Deep Purple last year, The artist had some awesome paintings of the Scorps for sale at an exhibit at the Alladins Hotel. Very Expensive! Anyway,the boys were invited to the Siegfried and Roy show and went to S and R's dressing room where Siegfried and Roy performed some amazing trick for them. They had each member sign some card and the jist of the trick was that in the blink of an eye, these cards suddenly appeared permanently stuck on the ceiling of the dressing room where they presumably still reside today. Matthias and Rudolf were blown away by the trick which S and R does for any celebrities that come to their dressing room. The description I got was of a room with all these cards on the walls and ceilings that have/had been signed by their guest celebrities, including our Scorpions. I'm sure we all wish Roy a full and speedy recovery.

[Stormchaser]

The gay issue is irrelevant. Roy’s condition and the treatment of the animals are. My wishes for his quick and full recovery. I’m honestly surprised something like this didn’t happen sooner. I don’t care how well you train them and how obedient they are, tigers are not domesticated animals and are at nature adversarial with man. You cannot train that instinctive nature out of them.

Very interesting debate. I agree with Silver that wild animals are better off free in their native environment, but not always. Sometimes the preservation of the species requires human intervention. It’s the least we can do when we are predominantly the cause of their endangered status. If that intervention requires the animals being in a zoo or other restricted environment, it is the lesser of two evils. Plus, I love zoos. Shame on me.

I’m not familiar with the specifics here. Are these tigers a product of other tigers that were saved from extinction? They were not captured in the wild and sent to the show, correct? These tigers would also have no chance of survival in the wild. They lack the predatory and survival skills wild tigers possess. They were not brought up in the wild by a mother that taught them these necessary skills. Therefore, no release to the wild option exists.

That they are being exploited is undeniable. But that exploitation does not appear abusive or detrimental. If their current home is the optimal form of confinement is debatable. Based on Beowulf’s posts, I’d have to believe it is.