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by **retvi** » December 28th, 2003, 6:33 pm

So, how do our boys feel about people of other religions? (Non-Christian) Especially Paganism.

by **beowulf** » December 28th, 2003, 6:56 pm

Well, I'm a wicca (witch) and so far, I haven't been kicked out of here, yet.

by **VirginKiller** » December 28th, 2003, 7:28 pm

Burn the witch...burn the witch:P:P
I'm just kidding beowulf
I don't care what's the other person person believe in cuz I know what religious intolerance can bring...WAR.DESTRUCTION.........

by **retvi** » December 28th, 2003, 8:29 pm

Beowulf! You're Wiccan too? That's groovy!

by **gohesse** » December 28th, 2003, 8:45 pm

I'm Lutheran (Reformed catholic). When I meet people of different religion, I take their religous practice as philosophy so I seldom have a problem. I welcome friends of different religoins, though very often I hear them criticize "Christian sinners" who do al those crimes like rape and murders----I find such person usually don't have much faith in their own God's teachings either.
What we need to make clear is, we must not mix knowledge (facts) and faith. These two are very different. You don't need to believe anything that you already know as facts. Anyone can take facts. Trusting something with no proof is much more difficult, but we need to have this called "faith".

by **gegers** » December 28th, 2003, 9:23 pm

i think religions are just a mess. they just make people think that they're all different but whatever your religion is, you're just a man! i have no religion, i don't believe in god, and i think it's the better way to think, but well, it's just my opinion...

by **JFM** » December 29th, 2003, 1:53 am

I think the contrary, Gegers. Religions reminds us, as we all are children of God, that we are one of a kind.

by **Alexdeep** » December 29th, 2003, 5:47 am

Originally posted by gohesse
What we need to make clear is, we must not mix knowledge (facts) and faith. These two are very different. You don't need to believe anything that you already know as facts. Anyone can take facts. Trusting something with no proof is much more difficult, but we need to have this called "faith".

Great words they remind me one discussion i had last year.
Trust. That is not in my nature - i cant believe anything without proof cause it makes you weaker, it makes you being mistaken many times.
I dont believe in god, so i should speak about my attitude to the people who do. And it goes from the things i've just said - i think that people who believe in god, they are weaker than someone who does not.
Though i aslo think that there can be tolerance between religioms, but tolerance is not the reason for wars! It is just a FAKE reason. Real reasons - money, power.

by **retvi** » December 29th, 2003, 6:39 am

Alexdeep- there is no good reason for war.

by **Alexdeep** » December 29th, 2003, 7:02 am

Who argues, retvi?

by **retvi** » December 29th, 2003, 7:28 am

I didn't say there were not wars. All I meant was that there are no good reasons for the violence. Of course, humans will come up with anything to use as a reason to hurt others...

by **gohesse** » December 29th, 2003, 9:34 am

Alexdeep,
How can people with faith be weaker than people who cannot believe?
I understand you don't believe in God...do you mean you don't believe the existence of God or do you mean you think there is existence of "higher being" but have no religion...?
Do you think if there was no religion there wouldn't have been any war...? (Are you blaming religions for wars?)

by **Alexdeep** » December 29th, 2003, 10:12 am

Hey! Hey... Gohesse, stop for a while.. Am i writing not clear or it is just difficult from my words to catch the idea?
I dont believe in God, and in any higher power (thats two different things, i think, but people often say - I do believe in God!, while believing in smthg different).
How can people who do belive be weaker? I think i answered this question: because they just believe without facts, and thats why they can believe in many other different things... In things that are not true for example, and thats why they can have wrong thoughts and make wrong deeds - thats what i mean by "weaker".. I mean that people who do believe - they want to have somebody out there (god or power) who desides for them, and who rules everything, who can change everything. Thats why they are weaker..
About wars - on the contrary I believe that religion IS NOT THE REASON FOR WARs. Some people think that people start wars because of religion (for example crusaders) BUT REAL REASONS ARE ECONOMIC REASONS, not religion.

by **gohesse** » December 29th, 2003, 10:49 am

Thanks for answering, Alexdeep.
Well, I asked if you believe in existence of God without having any religion is, some people actually do bealive there is some kind of higher being, but they don't think any more of it, they don't want to belong to any church or religious organization...
I don't agree with your opinion that people with faith being weaker. As I told you, you don't have to "believe" if you already "KNOW" it because you have seen the proof. If you canNOT even believe, I think the person could be weaker (I don't say he/she Is weaker but can be weaker)
Not all of us think we are different, though I know there are many so call Christians who look down on you like you are lower...(and they sure need God's help..lol) I can't speak much for them...but it's not just people who believe in god who act like they are different from others---Money can do that to people, fame can do that to people, too.

by **Alexdeep** » December 29th, 2003, 11:21 am

Not at all goheeze.
That is smthg i dont like - when people say thy belive in GOD, while they believe in some higher power...
You are right about some religions saying some people are "lower", but i can say that there are RADICAL movements in any religion. Some even tell people to kill... Unbelievable.
About my faith - you know the thing i REALLY do like in (classic ...)religion is that it says:
Love people around you
Do not steal
Do not kill
and so on...
But i consider that such things should be taken for granted wiyhout religion, just because they are true....
Have you seen a proof of god's existense? Tell about it, please. I am sceptical about this..

by **gohesse** » December 29th, 2003, 11:55 am

First,a MAN called Jesus did exist. This is a "fact" that you don't have to believe. But if you believe "what Jusus walked around and taught people" or not takes faith.
Proof of God's existence---I don't have it in a material form.
But I suppose you know God's basic message is LOVE. This is not limited to boy and a gorl thing. It is easy to love someone we already love. Love God talks about is Humanity..caring and helping others. People tend to imagine "god's answer to your prayer" is something like a big dramatic lighting or big whilt light comes from sky.... and when we don't see it we tend to think "there's no such thing as God" ... but that's not how God works. We just don't take notice that God is trying to help us in his own way.
Here's a story to make it easier to understand:
There was a man,who believed in God. He read his bible, went to Church, did all the good things, never committed any crime.
One day,storm was approaching. He heard the place where he lived would be flooded. He didn't worry, he thought "I believe in God. God will help me". When it started to rain, neighbors told him they would help him evacuate, but he told them "no thank you, I believe in God. God will help me, so I don't need your help". Then it started to flood, so the man went upstaris. Someone came to rescue him on a boatCome on, we will help you! get on the boat!" but the man told themNo thank you, I believe in God, God will help me, so I don't need your help". Water got higher, the man had to crimb up to the tree from the roof. A helicopter came. "We will help you! grab the ladder!"...again, man told themNo thank you, I believe in God,God will help me, so I don't need your help"...and he died.
when he went to heaven, he asked God "God why did you not help me?"
God became angry and shouted at him. "YOU FOOL! I TRIED TO HELP YOU! I SENT YOU BOAT AND HELICOPTER AND EVERYTHING!"
Of course this isjust a story, not real... But I hope you can get an some idea how God works to make us "help each other". If we ask God and God gives whatever we need directly, we won't have a chance to work together, helping each other, lending hands to the weak,helping poor, caring for the sick....
I hope it helps you see from my point of view a little...
sorry it took so much space..

by **Anchez** » December 29th, 2003, 12:19 pm

Originally posted by Alexdeep

Have you seen a proof of god's existense? Tell about it, please. I am sceptical about this..

Prove that He doesnt exist?You think that he doesnt exist because we cant see him?Peoples belief in God makes Him exist on some level.

by **NUNO FILIPE** » December 29th, 2003, 12:32 pm

well we dont see the wind but we believe that he is there because we feel it so in some ways we feel good too...

p.s. we dont see the scorpions here but hey we believe that they come here and they exist lol

by **anna** » December 29th, 2003, 2:26 pm

the whole Universe lives according to the number of laws, independent from any person... but what it depends on? how these laws were established? who established them? i don't believe in those God, which the bible speaks of (i mean that Jesus was the son of God and those legens of his deeds) i like more esoteric theories, i believe in karma and reincarnations and i don't believe that the Universe is total chaos... and believing these things makes me stronger... i think believing in God (or any higher being, or some power which rules the life) does not mean transfering your responsibility to God. there are too many people and the God is only one, so he can't take care of every person... people themselves must care and take full responcibility of their lives! believing in God (higher being, power) means believing that life in general (life of any man, as well as life of any living creature, as well as life of our planet, galaxy...)has some sence, that it's not chaos which came from nowhere and leads to nowhere... it's the believing in some highest justice... such believe give you hope, and hope sometimes is the main thing in life.

and tolerance... tolerance is needed... i have a friend, who is muslim... but we try not to speak about our believes... in many cases it's better not to argue that your believe is right but just stay with your opinion and let the other person be as he/she is.

by **Sheryl** » December 29th, 2003, 2:34 pm

This is a very interesting topic. I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian family, and while I believe in the tenets of Christianity I do not belong to any organized religion. I consider myself to be a spiritual person rather than a religious person. You need proof of God's existence? Just look around you, proof is everywhere.

religion tolerance

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