Scorpions

by **yayas** » November 23rd, 2003, 11:26 am

Sheryl, you definitely want to watch the movies. I wouldn't say they do any disservice to the books. I know usually a movie thrashes a book apart, but these really are good movies even to those of us already familiar with the books.

over and out captain.......where's stinky these days?

by **Julchinda** » November 23rd, 2003, 8:41 pm

Yes, I said about "Nazis=Orks". But not me decided it. I read about it. Toliken, when young, being in army, was all over the world, and in Russia too. He saw ALL THAT HORROR, it influenced on him very much. And about fascism - these words are Tolkien's. He mixed up national folklore, all the horror of the world of that time. And made a serious fairy tale, if he didn't hide the true, he'd be killed of put in a concentration camp...

by **saylorgirl** » November 24th, 2003, 4:27 am

I have never read the books but I love the movies & can't wait until the 3rd film is released.

I just got through watching the extended edition of The Two Towers and the additional footage is well worth watching. It gives alot of background on why different characters behave the way they do.

by **anna** » November 24th, 2003, 1:38 pm

Originally posted by yayas
Is there truly an good vs. evil comparison in the world? I personally don't think so. Take a look at Communism...in it's truest sense it's a beautiful thing, but it's man that corrupts. While Capitalism is for those who work hard to get ahead in life but it also has it's flaws because of man. It's our greed and lust for power that ruins anything. then maybe it's still the same comparison but not in the whole state or in the whole world but in the soul of every single man? everyone choose for himself where he turns at last... till then, there is no perfect government...

by **Stormchaser** » November 25th, 2003, 2:14 am

Yayas: Take a look at Communism...in it's truest sense it's a beautiful thing, but it's man that corrupts
With all due respect I strongly disagree. It is a fundamentally flawed system. Even in an ideal environment with no corruption it is an inefficient system that deters productivity, competition and innovation. There is no incentive for the entrepreneur, and an under utilization of talent. There is little prospect for achieving wealth and very limited prospects for improving one’s life.

That’s just scratching the surface but enough said. By the way, good point about good vs. evil. Basic yet effective symbolism.

by **yayas** » November 25th, 2003, 7:41 am

When I speak of Communism in it's most fundamental components, INDIVIDUALS do not come in to play. The need for invididual WEALTH (and power) is man's greed. Stormchaser, in a way you really did prove my point, the fact that man does need incentives is a human flaw.

In a perfect world, everyone is going to do their best and try their hardest with no incentives other than to see the people as a whole prosper. Everything should be shared equally, so when I say that Communism is a beautiful "concept" we all know it could never truly work in this world. Nonetheless, idealistically....amazing.

I take this to heart "man is the corruptor."...............I could get religious and really tie things together better that way but I don't feel the need to post such personal things...sometimes I believe it's better for such thoughts in a small group of people open minded enough to listen.

Stormchaser, I appreciate the way you were able to state your opposition...far too many of my posts have been met with hostility. I would say it's a refreshing change

over and out captain,

yaya's

by **Stormchaser** » November 25th, 2003, 6:50 pm

Yayas, that’s one hell of an impressive thought provoking post. I indeed did prove your point, and you effectively expounded on it as well. My argument was based on realism, yours on idealism, which necessitates deeper thought and introspection. I never considered the need for incentive a flaw, but it surely is. Many flaws of human nature are realized when considering a utopian society, and I can think of very few that aren’t within me. Your words give me thoughts to question.

Is it morally wrong to strive for individualism instead of collectivism? Is it wrong to be rewarded a better lifestyle due to your superior skill or work ethic? Is it a sin to live in wealth while others live in poverty? Does it make me a bad person if I don’t think it is? Is the need for wealth really a reflection of greed? How about the desire for a life better than the one you currently live? How much better until it’s considered greedy? Where do you draw the line? Am I even sure the utopian society is ideal? To even ask the question exposes my flaws. But are those flaws indeed flaws in the concept of the real world?

Thanks for making me think. I’ve still got a lot left to examine.

by **DefLep** » November 25th, 2003, 9:38 pm

What an interesting discussion this has turned into. I actually must agree with Yayas, the basics of Communism are good. I think a mix between Communism and Capitalism would work well. Like if anyone who worked a certain amount of hours would automatically get free health care, an adequate shelter, adequate clothing, and just the necessary foods to maintain health. I think no one should be denied these, and maybe die because of these, just because they have no money. I also think that the jobs that would normally pay more (ex. doctors, lawyers) would receive extra money to buy whatever pleases them (larger house, better clothing, unnecessary items). Then, some people still would be able to get ahead, but no one would be left in poverty.

by **anna** » November 27th, 2003, 2:11 pm

Originally posted by Stormchaser
Is it morally wrong to strive for individualism instead of collectivism? Is it wrong to be rewarded a better lifestyle due to your superior skill or work ethic? Is it a sin to live in wealth while others live in poverty? Does it make me a bad person if I don’t think it is? Is the need for wealth really a reflection of greed? How about the desire for a life better than the one you currently live? How much better until it’s considered greedy? Where do you draw the line? Am I even sure the utopian society is ideal?
individualism is good thing untill it comes to mere egoism... it's good to care about yourself but how about other people? at least we live in society and there is quite a thin face when individualism does not lead to the opposition of Me and Others and even to conflict between Me and Others...
greed? greed is not the need for wealth and not when other people consider you as greedy or stingy... greed is a "streak of character" (or how to call it?) the amount of bank account has nothing to do with it, it can strike rich as well as poor... ok, one can increase one's wealth more and more, but it's not an eternal process, i guess it's obvious. to earn money for living or to live for earning money? when money is the main goal - it's greed.
if you mean, the ideal - "the best for living", then the ideal society is utopian, but not all utopias are ideal
Originally posted by Stormchaser
But are those flaws indeed flaws in the concept of the real world?

Originally posted by DefLep
i think a mix between Communism and Capitalism would work well.
yeah, it seems to be by the way my father was in China for business and he says that they live almost like in capitalist countries but still they have their communist party... and now their living standard is much better than it was 10 years ago... did they managed to built those perfect State

by **tikkari** » November 27th, 2003, 6:00 pm

J.R.R.Tolkien (the writer) deny all allusion to the second war or such things. Orcs arn't natzi!
I have loved that story a very long time. I have read the trilogy many many times (i can't calculate it anymore). Tolkien has written The Silmarillon and hes son finish "the incomplete fable story". Those tells what happend before the Hobbit and the LOTR. Thse two books are very hard readings but it helps you understand some things on the Hoppit and the LOTR.

by **DefLep** » November 29th, 2003, 12:08 am

"To earn money for a living or to live for earning money." - Anna

Very well stated, Anna.

by **Heart Of A Lion** » December 4th, 2003, 1:07 am

Another point I'd like to mention on Tolkien's work, is the respect for the nature, that he showed in LOTR. A good example are the Ents.
When Treebeard saw the destroyed forest and cryed loud and sad, asking for his friends, we can figure out, what the nature would be feeling about the man's disrespect.

by **anna** » December 5th, 2003, 2:32 pm

yeah, there are many good ideas in the story... respect for nature, respect for traditions and the particular showing that knowledge is good but too much of knowledge can turn out worse (the elves studied making Rings to gain knowledge, but Sauron caught them on thier way to knowledge and what did it bring to... we've read)... it has very deep sence... somehow it appeares that people can't know too much about the world that is around us...

by **Stormchaser** » December 6th, 2003, 9:31 pm

Anna: somehow it appeares that people can't know too much about the world that is around us...
Very perceptive! For some people, knowledge is a very dangerous thing, and certain types of knowledge would be better left unknown for mankind in general.

by **Heart Of A Lion** » December 30th, 2003, 1:08 am

Hi friends, I'm back!
Yesterday I went to the movies to watch to The Return Of The King. I'll not tell the film's history, but I can tell you all that it was magnificent, superb!!!!!! One of the best films I've ever seen. Absolutely the best film of this century (at least until the moment, hehe).
And I can tell ya, that at the end of it, some tears dropped from my eyes, the performance of the actors was great and they transmitted a lot of feelings to the audience!
If you already saw this movie, let me know your opinions, if you 'didn't, then hurry up.

by **taken_by_force** » December 30th, 2003, 5:13 am

Heart of lion, I agree with you. I saw this movie and I cannot say enough good things about it. Tolkien's masterpiece comes to life perfectly. This trilogy of movies has become an epic and will ranked up there with the Star Wars saga. Even though this is a 3 and a half hour movie, it kept me interested and glued to my seat the whole time. If you saw the previous two films then you have cannot miss this one. I cannot wait for the special 3 movie dvd set comes out so I can own all three!

by **anna** » December 30th, 2003, 12:03 pm

soon The Return of the King will come! i'm waiting

by **Julchinda** » December 30th, 2003, 9:20 pm

UGHHHHHHH, we'll see LOTR-3 only on 22th of JANUARY!!!!!!!=(((( But when I watch it - I'll describe you my feelings, ok? =)))

by **onecrazysquaw** » January 1st, 2004, 11:58 pm

WOW what a great topic!
Ok YAYAS you crack me up and I totally respect all of your political beliefs..but
DAMN IT ITS JUST A MOVIE SERIES!
Dont get me wrong..but here is my take.

I read the series of books..I was about 13 or so..
I also remember seeing the ANIMATED version on Video later on.
I still remember the orcs, the animated version was cool!
"Where there's a WHIP there's a way"
I wish I can see the book that was spoken of..That would explain alot.
Anyways.

As for the Films...The first 2 were and ARE great..the LOTR is FREAKING AWESOME!
I have seen it 3 times now....
I have noticed ALOT of new things each time I saw it.
I have to say I had a few favorite parts.

But my highlight was going the 3rd time..I took my nephew(Adrian) to go see it and that was worth the look on his face.!

Oh and I must comment on the head piece she wore in one of the last scenes( you will know when you see it)..I can't say who, but it is BEAUTIFUL!

Over all I recommend you all see this film..The work is wonderful and I had a great time with all my nephews while seeing it all 3 times!

.....Hasta Pasta....

Paula

by **saylorgirl** » January 2nd, 2004, 5:50 am

I saw Return of the King yesterday & I absolutely loved it, however I think they could have ended it about 20 minutes before they did & it would have had more of an impact. The last 20 minutes or so of the film seemed anti-climatic after everything that had happened already. I have never read the books & I'm sure the last scenes followed the book but maybe they should have just been added to the extended dvd. It is a great movie though & well worth seeing.

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