Rudolf's outing

[YNWA]

Why bands like AC DC, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Mark Knopfler and many more accept these rules and Scorpions not ?

Accept what rules? AC/DC and Metallica won`t ever accept to play in front of 8000 ppl (excluding MetClub private shows, which is AWESOME gesture for the fans)... They are way too "big" in their eyes for that. Scorps, in difference, do it.. They play in smaller venues, just to please, as you say, their fans... Biz is biz... Scorps follow some certain rules too, but not as extremely as some others. We should appreciate that...

[RobertaForster]

If am wrong english fans please tell me but I think the main problem is that the scorpions are ignoring or do not know their situation in the UK, they are not a big band there anymore as they used to be, so how are they going to headline one of the most famous UK's festival. There's only a few choices for the scorpions in England:

- To be there as a second act/opening band like when they opened for judas priest afew years ago, or in a second stage in a festival, it's not something shameful, nothing bad about it, but I think they don't t feel the same

- To do a tour with special guests like pasts years with Uli & Michael ,but quite difficult to see again i'm afraid...

- Not going there

But well I hope they go there finally and soon!

Well, I think that if they can refuse an offer to play anywhere, it is because they CAN do it. Probably it means that they get best offers in other places and happens this way with any professional who is too much requested. Yeah, it's also about money, too much romantic to think they play ONLY for love, they love what they do, that's why they make money.

One thing is to play for charity, but to play for some producer or employer who will make money with their concert, it's completely different. Why should they accept to play for not a good money at all? It's their decision. I wouldn't work to someone who wouldn't pay what I do believe I worth it.

Anyway, they play for love, but also for money. They say they love Brazil, of course, I do believe in it, but I also know that here bands get a lot of money! We have the most expensive tickets, so, producers pay to the bands what do they want. If it was not this way, I really doubt they would come here so many times as they did since 2005.

And after more than 40 years they have the right to decide where, when and how to play, and also how much they want for it

[Gabi6912]

Elton,

I don't have either your point about changes of the rules, I mean, what changed, and how?
However, you write interesting points.
I absolutely agree with Tom here about swalling your pride sometimes.

Ro, it seems abit off-topic, but let me to tel you something by my experiences:
it's too big courage to claim that you wouldn't work for less money than your work is worth for.
Believe me, there are extreme, and needful situations in life, when you can't avoid to work for a lower amounth than you would like to.

[therocker]

Well Gabi and Roberta,

My point is that something is changed since the gold era of R'n'R...the 80's
I guess this is on the eyes of everyone, so there are places where you sell your full package to local promoters very well and other places where the market works differently, like Italy. Here most of the bands can not have that kind of fee, but they never stopped coming over.
One of the formulas is a share of ticket selling between band and local promoter. The bands I mentioned have done it at least once lately and it worked out great. By doing this you can also test yourself how much you can sell and not just leave this part out of your plans. Doesn't it look a little bit more like playing for the kids as well, this way ??? Especially when you are in your Fairwell Tour....( When they will be....)
Why Iron Maiden can headline a festival in Italy and Scorps can't even show up ?

Why is it so difficult for some people to accept some polite and constructive critics towards the band ?
Shall all of us speak only about how good they are, how great was last show and so on....

I even opened a topic where I asked what people think about the actual management, very politely without being offensive, it got removed....not really fair, but that's the way it goes.

I would like to have the point of everybody and discuss about it all together, like a forum should do, like we are doing, actually. Please avoid strong feelings and being offensive

[diego18]

If am wrong english fans please tell me but I think the main problem is that the scorpions are ignoring or do not know their situation in the UK, they are not a big band there anymore as they used to be, so how are they going to headline one of the most famous UK's festival. There's only a few choices for the scorpions in England:

- To be there as a second act/opening band like when they opened for judas priest afew years ago, or in a second stage in a festival, it's not something shameful, nothing bad about it, but I think they don't t feel the same

- To do a tour with special guests like pasts years with Uli & Michael ,but quite difficult to see again i'm afraid...

- Not going there

But well I hope they go there finally and soon!

Well, I think that if they can refuse an offer to play anywhere, it is because they CAN do it. Probably it means that they get best offers in other places and happens this way with any professional who is too much requested. Yeah, it's also about money, too much romantic to think they play ONLY for love, they love what they do, that's why they make money.

One thing is to play for charity, but to play for some producer or employer who will make money with their concert, it's completely different. Why should they accept to play for not a good money at all? It's their decision. I wouldn't work to someone who wouldn't pay what I do believe I worth it.

Anyway, they play for love, but also for money. They say they love Brazil, of course, I do believe in it, but I also know that here bands get a lot of money! We have the most expensive tickets, so, producers pay to the bands what do they want. If it was not this way, I really doubt they would come here so many times as they did since 2005.

And after more than 40 years they have the right to decide where, when and how to play, and also how much they want for it

I think you misunderstood me
I did not say they had to play for charity or that they have to play for love. what I said is that they cannot expect to be treated and getting paid as a big band, superstars etc in a place they are not.
They have to accept what they are in each country. In somes they might be big, in others not. If they don't do that, what happens is what had happened in this "farewell tour" 3 years of touring the same places and countries again and again. That didn't happen a few years ago... things has changed...

As Thomas said maybe they should look in their inner circle beacuse the ones who are punished because all this are the fans.

Also a little less of "pride", and a little more of knowing who you really are and shallowing your pride sometimes would help them.
And really this kind of comments of members of the scorpions wich seems more in the style of Spinal Tap does not help their reputation, which in my opinion they've hurt enough this late years. And seeing all this... hurts

[RobertaForster]

Well Gabi and Roberta,

My point is that something is changed since the gold era of R'n'R...the 80's
I guess this is on the eyes of everyone, so there are places where you sell your full package to local promoters very well and other places where the market works differently, like Italy. Here most of the bands can not have that kind of fee, but they never stopped coming over.
One of the formulas is a share of ticket selling between band and local promoter. The bands I mentioned have done it at least once lately and it worked out great. By doing this you can also test yourself how much you can sell and not just leave this part out of your plans. Doesn't it look a little bit more like playing for the kids as well, this way ??? Especially when you are in your Fairwell Tour....( When they will be....)
Why Iron Maiden can headline a festival in Italy and Scorps can't even show up ?

Why is it so difficult for some people to accept some polite and constructive critics towards the band ?
Shall all of us speak only about how good they are, how great was last show and so on....

I even opened a topic where I asked what people think about the actual management, very politely without being offensive, it got removed....not really fair, but that's the way it goes.

I would like to have the point of everybody and discuss about it all together, like a forum should do, like we are doing, actually. Please avoid strong feelings and being offensive

But Elton... I was just showing my oppinion that they can pla for money... nothing more. Was I being offensive? I am sorry..., that was not my inttention! Of course I can accept critics about the band, even I did some, in the past...

[RobertaForster]

Diego, I still think they can refuse how many offers they want to refuse. If they are not treated as big band, super stars in a place but at the same time they are treat this way in other places, so... they can make their choice. They are not naive, I think they know how much they want to be paid. We don't know, afert all, how much the Brittish promoters offered to them or how much others promoters around the world paid for their concerts.

[YNWA]

Elton, my dear friend... I think for everyone is more than obvious that the only properly working part of the whole SCORPIONS machine is... the band itself.

Yes, I think our guys are doing great in what they can - playing, doing awesome music and enjoying the fans.

But on the other hand, I have to admit that in most of the times, everything else (excluding the shows) is made very unprofessional, which is absolutely unacceptable for a band with legendary status as Scorps.

Or let`s say it that way: as musicians, as artists, Scorpions are on top... they have been, they are and they will be always there...

You must agree that nowadays, the business environment requires any band/musician, who wants to survive, to be more a product than an artist - that`s the brutal reality! So, as a product - Scorpions are not doing well (which on one hand make me - the romantic fan, happy).

Why I think criticising, even constructivеly, is pointless: 'cause no one hears us! That`s why I`ve decided, since I can`t change anything in a better way, just to enjoy what I have - really, really good shows! It`s much easier to focus on the positive one.

Shall all of us speak only about how good they are, how great was last show and so on....

[therocker]

Roberta I didn't find offensive your post in any way. That's your point, it is fine. I was not saying to you let's avoid strong feelings, it was in general. Myself, I don't see nothing wrong if they play for money. Being a successful act on what they do best, giving a Live act fills me full of joy. Just wondering if other countries which have supported them for decades, do deserve to be cut out of the imense pleasure of seeing them....

Curry, it goes the same to you. Being amongst the successful tours that bands gave last year make them an excellent product by an excellent artist. Mos likely the only difference between me and you is that if I don't find fair that they shouldn't cut out a big piece of their audience, I will say it out loud. This is my personal point of view. Was wondering how many of you guys think like me.

[YNWA]

You may be misunderstood me.

You say "excellent product" and then say "they shouldn't cut out a big piece of their audience".

Nope, they made a great tour cause of the great shows, they`ve played. But the big piece of audience - Italy, UK, Spain is cut, because of managment reasons Look what I have said above: "...everything else (excluding the shows) is made very unprofessional, which is absolutely unacceptable for a band with legendary status as Scorps".

Managment reasons not always means "money,money,money". Cause, since Bulgaria and Romania can afford band like Scorps, then all of the other european countries can do it...I think, sometimes, the reasons are much more deeper.

See, we can all say it out load and so? What are we going to change? You said it very well in some of your posts - the most you can do is to make somebody angry (may be) and to see your post/topic deleted?

We`ll keep focusing on the bitterness, since we can do nothing? No, I don`t think so...

[RobertaForster]

You may be misunderstood me.

But the big piece of audience - Italy, UK, Spain is cut, because of managment reasons

That's the point, too many countries in the world and only one Scorpions band (at least the original one ) how to deal with this? Well... managment. I know they came to Brazil so many times because they like it, right, but as I've said before, Brazil is a "gold mine" for rock concerts.

[flyingvee]

They did it back in 93 when they played venues like the Beacon Theater in NY, which is a smaller venue, like the Hard Rock Lives. But yea, if the all the bands Tom mentioned are playing fairs and even venues like House of Blues, then why not them. It's a better more intimate show, forget the stage setup. Just bring the guitars, plug into rented Marshall stacks and turn it up to 11. It's a cop out. If guys like me could simply plug into amps with a few effects pedals 25 years ago and sound great, there is no reason why seasoned masters like the Scorpions can't sound great.

[onecrazysquaw]

Some great replies....
Along with passion , drive, and love for music, isnt one of the goals to make money for your work? Whats wrong with wanting what your worth?
Don't I agree with them NOT playing UK..nah...
I do however think they can manage some Acoustic set tours for Uk and such places offering lower amts of $$..Not the FULL set thing set up..but a smaller stage w/ All acoustic shows..
...somethings gatta give...Rudi made that statement....hmmmmm

[adriana]

I even opened a topic where I asked what people think about the actual management, very politely without being offensive, it got removed....not really fair, but that's the way it goes.

This is soooo wrong and makes me angry !!

We should be able to discuss everything as long as we keep it polite and no offensive as you said , Elton.

[ray41]

Some great replies....
Along with passion , drive, and love for music, isnt one of the goals to make money for your work? Whats wrong with wanting what your worth?
Don't I agree with them NOT playing UK..nah...
I do however think they can manage some Acoustic set tours for Uk and such places offering lower amts of $$..Not the FULL set thing set up..but a smaller stage w/ All acoustic shows..
...somethings gatta give...Rudi made that statement....hmmmmm

they dont need to do a acoustic set they just need to come over plug there guitars into amps and play they could play with a banner behind them for all i care after all the screen they bought over last time was rubbish anyway .

[ray41]

saying that i wouldnt mind seeing them do a acoustic set my missus loves the acoustica dvd so if i took her i would probably earn some brownie points lol

[WilhelmSc]

They did a bad thing by rejecting the offer! They're not big in UK anymore! In UK being the headliner of 2nd stage is a very good deal for Scorpions, just like in USA! In other countries like Brazil or France, its not good enough because of soo many fans they have there! As sad as it sounds, its the ego of Scorpions that can't fit the stage, not the equipement. Before the farewell tour, they would have accepted this deal, but now "noo we are too big for 2nd stage"! They didnt think about their fans in UK!

[ray41]

They did a bad thing by rejecting the offer! They're not big in UK anymore! In UK being the headliner of 2nd stage is a very good deal for Scorpions, just like in USA! In other countries like Brazil or France, its not good enough because of soo many fans they have there! As sad as it sounds, its the ego of Scorpions that can't fit the stage, not the equipement. Before the farewell tour, they would have accepted this deal, but now "noo we are too big for 2nd stage"! They didnt think about their fans in UK!

Very well said

[devilman]

They did a bad thing by rejecting the offer! They're not big in UK anymore! In UK being the headliner of 2nd stage is a very good deal for Scorpions, just like in USA! In other countries like Brazil or France, its not good enough because of soo many fans they have there! As sad as it sounds, its the ego of Scorpions that can't fit the stage, not the equipement. Before the farewell tour, they would have accepted this deal, but now "noo we are too big for 2nd stage"! They didnt think about their fans in UK!

These are my feelings too. It's very short sighted though. Donington is THE place to promote yourself around the world. Play a good set there and record sales will go through the roof, not only in the UK but all over. This is why the likes of Corey Taylor are there as often as possible with whichever band he's with. The Slipknot set of 09 is still selling them records now. If there was one gig to play to get your career back on track in the UK and introduce your music to a whole new generation then Donington is it. As it stands at the moment there a more than one generation of rock fans thinking that The Scorpions are up their own arses and too good for the stage that just about every rock/metal band in the world aspires to play. They're not going to buy any records now are they? I just wish they would eat a bit of humble pie and go back to Mr Copping. If they don't there isn't a festival in the UK that will ever have them again.

[Thomas]

I saw the news that the queen was rushed to the hospital with stomach problems
She must really be stressed and upset that The Scorps wont be there for Download